ntpsychology

RE: https://ioc.exchange/@peterrenshaw/117465072525953590

here’s one, @RavenLuni
a classic
I hoped this new iteration might have a different take, but I’m not surprised it doesn’t.
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The Milgram experiment, it’s always about what is wrong with the submissive subjects, why do people do what they’re told when it’s wrong - and my always complaint is, Is anyone studying the order GIVERS? THAT’S already understood, I guess?
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The subjects were victims of the experimenters, the whole thing has always been victim blaming.
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It’s a bias, and I swear it means the majority are something like alphas, they identify with, agree with, understand the order givers - and pathologize and blame the passive, affiliative sorts for obeying instead. 😠🫣
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#ActuallyAutistic
@autistics #NTPsychology is . . . toxic

I haven’t got an official diagnosis because I’ve given up on the official sort of human being
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@autistics #NTPsychology #ND #ActuallyAutistic #AuDHD

my idea is that they say they don’t like evolution because of the past, they don’t want to think of themselves as the offspring of apes - but of course it’s really about the present and the future, they don’t want to know that it’s them making the broken, futureless human nature, they don’t want to break cycles and have to absorb the abuse of their childhood and never “get their power back” (Alice Miller’s language) from their children.
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My . . . thorough acceptance of evolution tells me that’s exacty what they have to do, but I haven’t been able to convince one of them, let alone all of them. They seem to think they have the freedom to believe whatever they want.
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#Psychology #NTPsychology #ND #ActuallyAutistic #AuDHD #TheGadfly @autistics

I’ve got the story of the British/Canadian “Home children,” on again, and again I’m blown away by the lengths they will go to to ensure trauma and ignorance and disconnection in the next generation and Britain literally built Canada and the rest of the colonies on it.
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These enormous crimes upon the world’s Indigenous were perpuated by committing crimes against the colonizing powers’ own children, tearing them out if their lives and families, destroying their psyches and then giving them a homestead, it’s make your place, colonize or starve.
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It’s a difficult argument to make, group dynamics is built into the majority and growing still, but group dynamics is an Allistic . . . error, there really is no in-group, and almost no-one is getting the “good,” treatment. Again, the reason they see an out-group is because they are abused.
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Group dynamics is the Allistic usual thought, like capitalism, we are to believe hurting people gives us the good life, we are to believe our life comes from destroying others’ lives but again, it’s not true and despite we are mostly all engaged in capitalism and group dynamics, we are still mostly poor and still mostly living as poorly as our enemies.
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And again, so the payoffs are not material things, but emotional, feeding a need to hurt, whether it pays off in the good life or not, and again, always, if you wanted to create this need, you would probably hit children.
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#IWatchTooMuchTV #NTPsychology #ActuallyAutistic #Psychology #ND #Philosophy #AuDHD #Anthropology
@autistics

#NTPsychology
a New Yorker Magazine sort of cartoon panel, Everyman, you, on the couch, psychiatrist peering over his clipboard, speaking,
“Obviously, Low Self Image is going to be a problem. I mean, look at you.”
😜
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@autistics
#ND #AuDHD #ActuallyAutistic #Psychology

That’s more NT psychology, B.
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Autistics, especially aspie pricks like me don’t “put ourselves down,” we are realistic about our challenges.
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When I tell you about my challenges around music, that’s not my bad attitude holding me back - that’s more We are All
the Same nonsense that NT people are so sure of - as if everyone is a musician! - that’s me boasting to you about what I can do despite my challenges.
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When I tell you I’m playing a slide song but I can’t play slide, that’s me bragging about how I’ve figured a way to do it despite my challenges - FFS, can’t you see my hands and haven’t I told you the left one is asleep most of rhe time? It’s a real disability, not some bad attitude so you can make it my own fault and easily solved.
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Bah, never mind. You know better, of course.
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Frustrating. 😠
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#Guitar #NTPsychology #Autism #ND #ActuallyAutistic #AuDHD #Psychology @autistics #Ableism

I don’t want to keep railing at that person, I can’t imagine how hard life must be like that
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but I am making myself laugh a bit carrying on with myself about it
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I mean, the Autistics who can function and sort of pass, the ones who manage to learn to talk, if the doctors and the parents could actually listen to us when we do, if they would engage with our neurotype when it is articulate, the kids and adults with the biggest challenges, as well as we Daywalkers would all be having a better time of it.
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The last thing a parent with high needs kids should want to be doing is shutting down the ones with a foot in both worlds, the ones who can tell them how Autistics think. They only want the ones who can’t talk or something?
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Sorry.
I didn’t know until I started posting that I’ve definitely crawled out from under the wrong side of my rock today.
💜
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@autistics #ActuallyAutistic #Psychology #ND #AuDHD #NTPsychology

The majority thinks that people are generally the same, except for some individual differences, of course it’s more complicated than that, there seems to be a majority who are generally the same, but they’re one type, humanity is divided into neurotypes, there are other types that are mostly the same among themselves, so that’s a third layer of complexity, and still there are individual differences both within types and also individual differences that transcend types.
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It’s another layer of complexity but it’s a better theory, explains more than the other one.
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That’s why I’m all in on neurodiversity theory, if it explains more, I don’t see that ignoring it is an option.
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@autistics #AuDHD #ND #Psychology #NTPsychology #ActuallyAutistic

I think I say this a lot but I am just so incredibly burnt about all the years I wasted listening to my NT siblings parroting their #NTPsychology at me, shaking their heads at me like I’m the one not getting it.
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I was born knowing that and they weren’t and can never learn it, they know nothing, but they’re going to teach what they do not understand to the person who wrote the book. NT psych is business psych, army psych. It is not humanist or medical, it’s only there to keep you going to work.
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They spent the greater half of all of our lives telling me something is wrong and guessing about my possible early abuse, they listened to me tell them I had taken the whole idea further and refused to dish out even “normal,” levels of abuse, that I forsook and banned punishment, period - and when my bubble popped, I found out they hadn’t heard or believed any of it, and assumed I had been rough on the kids, despite everything I ever said or did: they couldn’t hear, “no punishment.”
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It’s not a thing. The NT have no brain path, no neuroreceptors for the negation of punishment. There are probably more aspects to the actuarial function, but that’s part of it and they don’t have it.
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What of my life they didn’t wasting talking their psychobabble, I wasted trying to tell them not to hurt people and expect things to improve because of it. THAT’s what I understand to be the core idea of lower case “p” psychology.
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I didn’t learn/figure out until my sixties that there are different brain types and that they don’t all have all the features, and then I finally saw that they just can’t get it.
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And yes, I pathologize. It’s a problem.
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Sorry. 💔😇
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/1 (maybe)
@autistics #AuDHD #ND #Psychology #Philosophy #ActuallyAutistic

Sapolsky Thursday
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there's some stuff about identities and being biracial but I don't think there's anything needs a warning. I mean I maybe could have used one, but I think folks are used to it - you'll see in the first comment or two 😬
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OK, here's the warning: there's all these studies that show group dynamics already at work very early in life, kind of even too early for my wholeview
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it's all trolling me, so I gotta lotta comments
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/1
#Evolution #Psychology #NTPsychology #ActuallyAutistic #ND #AuDHD @autistics
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https://youtu.be/5ib2QbIfx7k?si=nAJ3rDvOhiOLnjAC

RE: https://mstdn.social/@archaeology/116942317256778474

My point is, what is the point of trying to show the violence is forever except to justify it today? What good does it do us to think that it’s forever?
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#Evolution #Psychology #NTPsychology #Philosophy #ActuallyAutistic #ND #AuDHD @autistics

a ramble. I need to write to think.
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whoever said antisemitism is part antimonotheism, I don’t think they were wrong, but they probably had it in the usual Allistic timeline, meaning that the pantheons of lesser gods are old and monotheism is new, but for me the fight against monotheism is the other way around, the new, aggressive people have fractured, split personality gods and their war began against the primal goddess of the stone age. This places antisemitism as an oddly consistent over time because it’s the same battle that the Steppe people brought at the beginning of history, the new modern humans battle against the Old World, the genetic drift of the new people.
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Counterintuitive, for sure, the Hebrews were supposed to be the new monotheists as contrasted with Egypt, but that wasn’t really how it was for their first few millennia, and some readings of the OT, the Lord may as well be Mars, they were monotheistic if life was about nothing but war, but there were other gods earlier.
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It’s a theme, the normal narrative, what I call #AllisticScience , sees a before picture where I (and Gimbutas and anyone who believes in the peaceful Neolithic) see the after picture and an earlier transformation. We don’t see the Greek Pantheon as primal.
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Full disclosure, shoot myself in the foot moment: I think we think the Hindu pantheon IS primal, grown out of animism? I need to find some Asian prehistory, but do we think that of the Greeks? In ways yes, in ways I don’t think so, it always seems like the gods vs the earthbound creatures. I could be clearer about this.
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ah, tired myself out.
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/1 maybe
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#Philosophy #History #NTPsychology @autistics

my whole plan in life was the exact opposite of spoon theory.
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Aspie saint that I would be, I decided that unlike the idiots around me, I would ABSORB any shit I got from people, not be like them and NOT turn around and dump on someone in turn.
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Long before hearing any science about it, long before hearing of Sapolsky, or even of cortisol, I determined one should NOT deflect, and I thought if I let the shit in and did not let it out, that I was removing shit from circulation, taking it out of the world, and that if everyone did that, the shit would end.
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#NTPsychology says no, of course, that’s just repression and it will find its way out by unconscious means, and that’s what people give me still, my conscious attempts are meaningless and an asshole who doesn’t think he’s an asshole is even worse or something - NT gaslighting that.
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Like I am unconsciously hurting people - and it’s unconsious for them too, and no-one can say how and when? No, you’re still an asshole, just nobody knows, it’s all a secret how you hurt people and who. And whatever that is that no-one can name, this is equal to or worse than the way normal people explicitly and consciously deflect constantly?
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Honestly, I’ve answered that one. It’s still not an unconscious behaviour for me, but I’ve worked out how I’m hurting them, even if they still think it’s an unconscious mystery - it’s the moralizing, it’s talking about exactly this, about telling them not to deflect, that I am asking them to take the shit and keep it like I tried to do - it’s as though I am giving them all the shit they ever got from anybody and everybody on the spot, because I’m telling them they must keep all they ever got.
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Plus I guess they don’t see the prize at the end like I do. They don’t think it will ever stop coming, no matter what. Again, that’s the actuarial logic you need to see the causality and the prize.
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I suppose the deflection is how they have spoons, and absorbing the abuse is how you lose them, how I lose them. I think I made an experiment or two as a kid, I don’t think the deflection gains me any. I think I’m doing the only thing I can.
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@autistics #ActuallyAutistic #AuDHD #ND #Philosophy

my attempt to understand the world has reached a point where it’s pointless to carry on with, it doesn’t mean anything to anyone what I figure out, if anyone had all the answers it still wouldn’t matter, not to everybody else.
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I got fooled about this “march of human knowledge,” deal, as though we all absorbed everything anyone ever figured out. Oh gawd.
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We learn it in social mode, we learn the NAME of the person who figured it out, Charles Darwin, Rachel Carson, Sigmund Freud. Darwin figured out evolution (and Wallace, and surely others. Me.), so Darwin knows evolution, everyone else is still talking about Human Nature. Same with Freud. 😠
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What I have figured out, I know, and so it don’t mean squat and I’ve wasted my life. Ain’t nobody asking me nuthin’ and human knowledge isn’t a thing.
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Not in NT world. I assumed too much, I give too much credit.Their nations and their laws are still based in ancient Greek paganism.
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#ND #AuDHD #NTPsychology #Philosophy #ActuallyAutistic @autistics

I don’t want to single the person out, and I’m not, believe me, every normal person and most of the weirdos say what I’m about to argue with. I’m borrowing their text, though, it’s perfect, just what nearly everyone thinks.
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“I think violence is a part of human nature and could never go away. Even if you found a way to stop all physical violence, the human aggression that causes it would still exist.”
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I have a hard time accepting this, but I don’t think the majority sees anything wrong with that statement. Honestly, I think it’s built in, evolved into the majority.
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But from over here in Divergent World, what I see is an excuse never to change anything, never to stop whatever is causing the aggression. “It would still exist,” so it is beyond causality, beyond science or thought? Purely a spiritual matter?
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I’m still a toddler among the adults of Allistic science, having to ask, “Why?,” every ten seconds because, “because of Human Nature,” isn’t a real First Cause, you’re just sloughing your child off - OK, Dad, I’ll keep
it going: why, “Human Nature?” And anyway, when someone isn’t aggressive for thirty seconds, isn’t that, “Human Nature,” too?
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You have the same answer for opposite questions?
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But back to the point, the majority is so certain that aggression is natural and proper, causeless and inevitable that they will not experiment, will not learn anything further about it.
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#ActuallyAutistic #ND #AuDHD #Philosophy #NTPsychology @autistics

Me, coming back with my bullshit (LOOOVE that meme):
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when an animal, humans
included experiences
abuse, or perceives abuse, they are unhappy about it, displeased, upset, perhaps angry.
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This is not “Autistic rigidity,” rather ignoring this obvious fact is Allistic rigidity, it is they who are not rolling with what is real,
not working with this fact of life,
not changing their methods due to the reality on the ground.
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The entirety of the Human sciences supports this simple
causality and the only counter argument people have against it is denial, they don’t want it to be real, so they say it isn’t and try to make everyone agree with more abuse. Unfortunately, this is working.
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They have hijacked their environment and so diverted their own evolution, and many today really cannot see this truth, this core actuarial truth, that abuse changes people.
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The whole idea of law and punishment ought to have dried up and blown away with Wallace and Darwent, the idea that the same stressors work forever, that the animal doesn’t ADAPT to law and order belongs in a pre-Darwin world. Punishment would only ever do what they hope in a static, never evolving world. Do I have to remind you, crime has not ended?
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People adapted and evolved instead of learning what the punishers wished to teach. They even adapt to prison.
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“Rigidity,” is just what one neurotype says about another. It only means type is real, that people cannot be talked out of their evolved thoughts.
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My point in it all is that your evolved thoughts are like what the Russian fox farm showed: change the phenotype, select for
something, you’re likely also changing the personality, the brain and the thoughts. The supposedly regrettable Human Nature is being unregrettably selected for, and humans are doing the selecting themselves.
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So in theory, things could change. Sigh. So far, only in theory. My experiments were
futile.
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/1 maybe
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#ND #AuDHD #NTPsychology #Philosophy @autistics

I need something to think about and something to write but I’ve run out of anything remotely possible.
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I think I said this already, I’m obsessively trying to imagine how to show NT people the trap they’re in, but how to demonstrate, how to prove anything, the whole problem is they can’t see the proof in the first place.
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I’m looking for an analogy, cases where they can see other species inability to perceive or process, like the way wasps cannot find the open hole they entered the trap by to get out again, the way some herds or flocks can get caught up following one another to nowhere in a circle.
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Of course it falls apart, you can’t explain that first trait to the wasps or the second one to the turkeys. There’s a world of shit you can’t explain to me too.
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What I’m trying to express about myself in all this is my own shock at my own awareness of what I can’t seem to explain. I would like to somehow impart how R-worded people seem to be regarding causes, how I hear them say, “human nature,” like the low IQ aliens in Hitchhiker’s say, “Resistance is futile,” or like the gulls in Finding Nemo say, “Mine?”
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I see that expression, “human nature,” as an anti-intellectual rule, the one and only thing the totalitarian state insists can be said regarding people, any causality is some kind of treason. The slogan for a regime under which no self knowledge is permitted.
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“I hit them but it doesn’t HURT them,” is R-worded. That’s what hitting is for. If you don’t want to hurt them, why are you hitting them? If it doesn’t hurt them, what’s the point? Where’s the deterrent?
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It has consensus, but it looks really, really bad to me, logically. Like they don’t understand a word they say. I sprayed water on them, but I didn’t WET them. Something isn’t working there, rather, sense isn’t allowed in to human life.
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Sorry, FWIW
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/1 probably
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#ActuallyAutistic #ND #AuDHD @autistics #NTPsychology #Philosophy

More unpopular stuff about free speech in art, meaning violence in video games for one thing. Sorry.
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in one view, I think the “normal,” view, the church is the opiate of the masses, which assumes humankind left to its own devices would be less civilized and more violent without this sedative prescription.
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Corollary to this is a model of a pressure valve, that things like sports and adventure and horror films and games allow some vent to the suppressed violence, thus prolonging the periods of peace between the wars.
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Right? Y’all familiar with these ideas?
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This makes a certain amount of sense, considering the long history of thought humankind has, right, thought and experience, thousands of years of war, with localized intermissions? So go ahead, let off some steam, right?
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Except that long history doesn’t include #Evolution, does it? And there really hasn’t been an audit of human thought since Wallace and Darwent, TM, has there?
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These safe outlets fool your organism or you wouldn’t feel them, that’s the point of them.
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You wouldn’t get the very real adrenaline and cortisol rushes if they didn’t fool your body and so this is the environment your organism is evolving for and adapting to.
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The Good Guys in that debate, the pro video game, pro free speech ones are modern majority sorts, and see no harm, because they don’t see evolution, only #NTPsychology, where negative influences can be negated with positive ones that may never be forthcoming.
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Of course the bad guys in that debate are NTs too and when they run things the media is full of the same horrors except they’re real.
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No pithy ending, just saying, in the real world, “pressure valves,” are just pressure.
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#AutisticScience
@autistics

Capitalism is NT hyper sociality, the focus on competition - it’s as though nothing else happens, the world is a storehouse, and the only thing going on is people competing with each other over a given, unchanging (so inexhaustible) world.
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The disappearance of the salmon means nothing in itself, it’s the same to Us as to Them - so it’s a push, “doesn’t matter,” in the competition, to a brain that sees nothing but the human social world.
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Punishment kills the rational brain, commandeers the brain for social matters - I think this is probably the paring away of connections, they lose the conflicting connections for the rational side of life. It makes
complete sense that the entire pyramid of human hierarchy, that the doctors the state pays think it’s good that all those connections that conflict with social order are “unnecessary.”
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A rational mind wouldn’t approve of trimming connections, a less social mind might call a loss of connections brain damage.

I’m sorry if anyone does read me, I know I’ve said it all before.
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Just expounding that capitalism is not chimpanzee aggression,
it is modern Allistic hypersociality - this is the point of authority and punishment, to force the mind away from the real world and insert an all consuming focus on purely human matters, and the result is they really cannot see the real world anymore and they will fight among themselves until the oxygen runs out.
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This is sort of the definition of education. Those who laud education as the answer to it all - are you under the impression people are not already educated by force about everything?
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Do you think they need school because everyone was leaving them alone, letting them develop naturally?
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#Philosophy #ND #NTPsychology #AuDHD #ActuallyAutistic @autistics

I cannot give up on language, it’s part of being divergent, Autistic.
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I’ve been misunderstood and unheard all my life, but despite that intellectually I have learned this about most people, my fantasies, my dreams are still always and only somehow about being able to talk to someone.
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It is simply not in my “Nature,” to imagine that the point of language is to share something other than the real world,
let alone the very opposite. I cannot accept that it is pathological to be late in learning the mechanics of lying.
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I’m convince the Autistic kids who failed the test had already learned what I finally have about most people, and they ignored the question and tried to solve the real problem instead, the puppet’s lost item. Solving the problem, finding what is lost - this is somehow a lack of empathy, while learning a clever way to steal the item - hiding the painting in the museum to be found and removed the next day, hiding the murder weapon where it will evade the first search and moving it before the detectives figure out to look there, for instance, same thing - learn how that works by the time you’re two or you’re faulty, somehow.
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I feel these Autistic test subject babies were trying to teach the researchers something.
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@autistics #ActuallyAutistic #AuDHD #PuppetTest #ND #NTPsychology

“Sheeple.”

you don’t understand anything and you have it all backwards. “Sheep,” is not an insult among sheep, it’s an insult among wolves, and so the people who count themselves as wolves aren’t perhaps all wrong about themselves, the error in it all is that every human wolf thinks they’re the only one, but they’re not, they all hate each other as sheep, they’re ALL wolves (in this twisted metaphor).
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Blaming the followers when every goddam one of them is leading somebody, pushing somebody, forcing their lifestyle.
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If some sheep is following, some wolf is leading, and if everyone is following, then everyone is leading too.
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But you’re agreeing with the aggressive leader side and blaming the passive passive follower side for all the trouble if you say the sheep side of humankind is the problem, seeing only half of the problem and blaming the side that appears to have less choice in it.
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Ignoring the more active and salient cause (as seen from the passive side).
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#ND #Philosophy #NTPsychology #AuDHD #ActuallyAutistic @autistics

Apparently I don’t sleep
anymore. So here’s a little exploration, or a rant.
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It’s philosophy, this, I don’t do experiments or proofs, no-one would call me a scientist. An old time definition of #Philosophy, it’s not some system of grammar or a dissection of our senses’ adequacy to show us reality.
🧐💜
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I’m not a “man;” I’m #ActuallyAutistic
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I’m not white, I’m Autistic
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Whatever is wrong with white men, and there’s a lot, it’s Allism.
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If you’re Allistic and female, or Allistic and black, or Allistic and queer, you could be more of a problem than a straight white Autistic man, because your brain means more than your skin colour or your genitals or what you do with your genitals.
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I lived in a world of Allistic females and the hate and the power was theirs, not mine, they were the liars and haters in my life, not because they are women but because they are Allistic and to be Allistic is to fight. Some of
my people are gay - I confess, no black people were involved in my life, I am applying my insight after the fact regarding race, that your brain has priority over everything.
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There are surely places where black people rule and there black men surely fill all the same roles as white men do here, right? And not because they’re black, or even because they are men but because they are Allistic.
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Race and gender and sexuality are only the most important differences between people depending on your neurotype, and depending if you know about neurotypes or not - and these things seem intertwined. It seems only the #ND, the minority neurotypes know about neurodiversity.
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The majority sort doesn’t seem to see it, so long and short, mostly it is the majority type, Allistics who are left seeing the other differences as more causative of something, race, sex, etc., #NTPsychology
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White skin doesn’t make you evil, same as black skin doesn’t make you whatever some white people say black people are, neurotype and environment make you whatever you are. Psychology deals with your environment in this life, neurotype seems to be about evolution and adaptation to long term environments, types are something like multigenerational psychological . . . I can’t find a neutral or positive term, I’d use it if I had one, but . . . syndromes, or disorders.
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Neurotypes are an order/disorder, depending on your POV or a value judgement,
like that. Multigenerational trauma or not, an adaptive or maladaptive brain, but . . . real. Biological. And evolving.
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Hmmm. Question: what are people trying to convey by that, “multigenerational,” if not evolution, inheritance, and genetics? - Oh, Hell, I’ve blathered on and now you’re forgetting the point, aren’t you?
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Quick recap: race and gender ain’t it, neurotype is more foundational than any of that by an order of magnitude, and it’s only one type that doesn’t know that and fixates on all the external noise and ignores brains, especially its own. #TheoryOfMind 🙄
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1/ (gawd forbid 😬🫣)
@autistics

Human evolution thread:
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I typed a bunch of this as replies to someone, but there’s no reason they have to answer any of it, they didn’t say anything everybody doesn’t say.
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And this far beyond the context of what they were saying.
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Where to start? I’ll try to preface those replies with something to set the scene, then I’ll add those replies, but don’t anybody answer right away, I’ll be editing them after initially posting them.
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So the idea is that every enlightened person knows that, “survival of the fittest,” suggesting, “the strongest,” isn’t the correct take of evolution, that there is more to life than strength. People have made great cases for the functional evolution of cooperation and sharing over competition and fighting.
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But somehow, the brutal version is still the only version there is in the world, simply say “human evolution,” and everyone reacts to the brutal version, no-one thinks, “maybe this is the good kind of evo talk,” ever.
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What seems to exist for the majority is a kind of a false binary where human evolution must be either the rough sort with the perfect soldier at its pinnacle - or humans stopped evolving during the Palaeolithic - so we still have “Palaeolithic emotions,” right, isn’t that what they say?
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They seem to make evolution something the bad guys talk about - and so the good guys, when they are in charge of things, cannot manage or improve anything either, because they don’t see evolution - the effect of the environment of an evolving Human Nature - at all.
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OK, the replies:
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/1
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#ActuallyAutistic #AuDHD #NTPsychology #Autism #Evolution #AutisticScience @autistics

Starting to wish I had the spoons or the focus to write a long one, spelling out for the majority how their deflective need to punish is forever undermining their dreams, that they are constantly shooting themselves in the foot.
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It’s a #Hockey story today, how the #MapleLeafs coach let last evening’s game slip away because he was punishing a quarter of the offensive talent for an early scrup. Of course I have no idea what earlier pain the coach was paying off, no-one ever does, but maybe he was biased that way, felt like he was, “doing something,” got a drop of dopamine for it - but lost the game.
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I mean, these are #Hockey people saying this, not some
elbow patch liberals. Even the hammerheads of hockey could see that one. 😘💜
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I feel like it wouldn’t be impossible to write a whole book of examples like that, right up to and including world wars. Trivers put it down to self deception late in life, but I suppose that’s a trait that varies across neurotypes.
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#IWatchTooMuchTV #ActuallyAutistic #NTPsychology #Philosophy #AuDHD @autistics