26/ McB:
"The burden here is on us," Conroy says, to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that these violations were made willfully.
"The order is clear," he says, and Trump violated it.
26/ McB:
"The burden here is on us," Conroy says, to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that these violations were made willfully.
"The order is clear," he says, and Trump violated it.
27/ Klasfeld:
Conroy:
"There is no doubt that the defendant made these statements."
He adds that Trump's addition to the Watters statement goes to the former president's "willfulness."
"All of the posts here are made concerning the criminal proceeding." [...]
"It's just very clear that they were linked to this case."
28/ McB:
All of the posts here are made in relation to this criminal proceeding, says Conroy. "We know that from the words...it's just very clear that they relate to this case."
👉🏼"Throwing MAGA into a post doesn't make it political. It may make it more ominous," he says.
29/ Klasfeld:
Conroy confronts Trump's defense that he's just responding to attacks by Michael Cohen and Stormy Daniels.
The Appellate Division informed him otherwise, the prosecutor notes.
"He knows he's forbidden. That's what the order says."
"There is no provision in this order for responding to attacks."
30/ Klasfeld:
"By his logic, if someone not covered by the order says something mean," then he can attack them.
That view is "tortured at best" and would "eviscerate the clear meaning of this order" if the court would adopt that, the prosecutor adds.
Trump is violating the "crystal-clear, unequivocal lines" of the court's gag order.
He pivots to the argument that reposts aren't his statements.
"That flies in the case of common sense."
31/ McB:
There's no indication that Trump's claim that he's responding to attacks is anything more than an after the fact justification, says Conroy.
"[Trump] says whatever he needs to say to get the results that he wants. It's tortured at best," says Conroy, arguing that the defendant has plenty of leeway to talk about a great many other things.
32/ McB:
Trump was "knowingly and willfully breaching the crystal clear unequivocal lines set by this court in the April 1 order to protect the integrity of this proceeding," says Conroy.
Now he's addressing Trump's argument for an order carve out for reposts, rather than original posts of his own.
33/ Press:
👉🏼👉🏼 Prosecutor: We are not yet asking for an incarceratory penalty. We are asking for a $1000 fine for each of these ten posts, and that he be ordered to take the ten posts down.
Trump's lawyer Blache: President Trump knows what the gag order allows him to do
34/ McB:
Conroy says they're "not yet" seeking sanctions of jail time—only fines, ordered removal of the posts, and for the court to issue another warning that this won't be tolerated and that incarceration is an option "should it be necessary."
Blanche is up now.
"Just to set the record very straight and clear: Pres Trump does in fact know what the gag order allows him to do and not allow him to do."
35/ Orden:
Conroy says they are not seeking jail time, but "defendant seems to be angling for that."
"Retweets are not endorsements" as a legal argument
Conroy is disputing that "reposts" are exempt from the gag order. He points to New York defamation law, which says that someone who repeats defamatory material “is subject to liability as though he had originally published it.”
36/ This seems like a confession. He’s saying, Trump knows what he’s doing.
Klasfeld:
Blanche:
"Just to set the record very straight and clear: President Trump does know what the gag order" allows him to do and not do.
Blanche claims that there's been no violation.
37/ McB:
Merchan clarifies the timing of a post from Cohen post, which would proceed Avenatti's post.
"We're gonna take one at a time, otherwise it's going to get really confusing," Merchan says to Blanche. He wants to get the timeline of these posts, reposts, and replies clear.
38/ Klasfeld:
Blanche:
There's no dispute that Trump's facing a "barrage" of attacks from all corners, particularly from Michael Cohen and Stormy Daniels.
Trump's comments "back to them" were not about their testimony.
"Michael Cohen directly responded to this comment by Mr. Avenatti politically."
The judge asks him for a citation.
39/ Klasfeld:
He responds that it's in the defense papers, referring to one of Cohen's posts about the "orange menace."
"He's allowed to respond to political attacks, your honor."
Justice Merchan corrects the chronology: Trump's post preceded Cohen's, he says.
40/ Klasfeld:
Merchan presses Blanche: What about Cohen's post makes it a political attack?
Blanche replies that it's the reference to a pardon.
👉🏼Merchan, skeptically:
"You believe that everything that Mr. Avenatti said does not relate to the trial, but that the use of the word 'pardon' makes it political and authorizes your client to respond?"
41/ Klasfeld:
Merchan:
"When your client is violating the gag order, I expect you" to have more than one word — i.e. pardon — as a justification.
Blanche denies that Trump violated the gag order.
The judge says he hasn't yet made that finding.
[Me: This reminds me of the Seinfeld episode where they’re pitching their show to NBC, asked why they should buy a show about Nothing, George says, “bc it’s on TV” and NBC Guy says, “Not yet!”]
42/ McB:
Blanche says that the witnesses are making money, documentaries, TV interviews about Trump, all while Trump is gagged and threatened with jail if he responds.
Merchan wants to get into what was actually said rather than interpret and "read between the lines."
Blanche argues that the mention of the pardon in Cohen's post is what makes it political in nature.
Merchan asks if Blanche has spoken to Avenatti (no), then asks, "How can you infer...what he means?"
43/ McB:
What defense is saying is a) it's political and b) significantly, if he's talking about witnesses it can't have anything to do with these proceedings. Remember why the language in the order exists, says Blanche.
Merchan: "I remember."
Blanche; "I don't want to relive that."
44/ McB:
“You refer to the repeated attacks, yet this first exhibit didn't happen until the day after the matter was brought to the appellate division," Merchan says. It's "not a recent attack, but a series of attacks, can you understand why I'm curious about that?"
Merchan asks impatiently if we can go onto exhibit 2.
45/ Klasfeld:
Blanche:
Cohen and Daniels have "ramped up" their political attacks.
The judge calls the timing "confused," noting that Trump waited until an appellate battle before posting attacks from posts from days earlier.
Blanche, with the quote of the day, so far:
👉🏼"Pres Trump 'Truths' repeatedly, all day, virtually seven days a week, your honor."
Blanche on "repeated attacks" from Daniels, including through her documentary:
"He's running for president. He has to respond to that."
46/ McB:
"This was a response to what specific attack?" Merchan demands. "This is six years old, when [Trump] pulled it out."
The document is six years old, but Trump had posted "Look what was just found"
Merchan clarifies that he didn't get an answer about what specific attack exhibit 2 was in reference to, but Blanche says it's a response to repeated attacks.
47/ McB:
Merchan: "Repeated is not specific. Give me one, give me the most recent one that he was responding to here."
👉🏼Merchan is audibly and visibly irritated with Blanche now, as the judge says to him: "I'm asking the questions. I'm going to decide whether your client is in contempt or not...so please don't turn this around."👈🏼 [Me: Oof!]
Merchan mentions that it's almost 10:30, and jurors are waiting.
48/ It’s hard keeping up today, folks.
Klasfeld:
Blanche on "repeated attacks" from Daniels, including through her documentary:
"He's running for president. He has to respond to that."
Blanche angers the judge with this question:
"Your honor says the timing matters. Why?"
👉🏼Merchan snaps: "I'm asking the questions," telling Blanche he shouldn't "turn it around."
49/ Klasfeld:
Blanche positions Trump's attacks against Cohen as a broader swipe at justice system:
"It's attacking the People, & the system, for not prosecuting Mr. Cohen for lying."
He says Trump's criticizing the "2 systems of justice in this courtroom."
👉🏼That line doesn't seem to sit well with Justice Merchan.
👉🏼"There's two systems of justice in this courtroom? That's what you're saying?" he asks, bristling.
Blanche puts that sentiment in his client's mouth, and the exchange moves on.
50/ Klasfeld:
Justice Merchan: "That suggests because the people or the court do not take action for every single violation," that the gag order is waived.
Blanche: "That's not what we're saying."
👉🏼The judge says that is what the defense is saying.
51/ Klasfeld:
Blanche: "It's not making a mockery of the gag order, your honor. It's a close call."
Blanche says that "reposting an article from a news site" or "a news program" doesn't violate the gag order.
Justice Merchan asks him where the case law supports that.
🤦🏻♀️😂"I don't have any case law," Blanche says, calling the proposition "common sense."
52/ McB:
😂 #WompWomp 👉🏼If you can't tell from my live tweets so far, this contempt hearing doesn't seem to be going well for the defense.
Blanche mentions two potential violations that the DA didn't bring up.
That suggests that somehow the people or the court does not take action on a violation, that the gag order is waived, that's just silly, 👈🏼Merchan says. That doesn't negate the validity of the gag order.